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RonSwanson

The Plan to Offset Volatility

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I've been thinking about how volatility might affect users willingness to hold CSC in the BRM in between sessions.  Personally, if I drop in $2,500 to play with, knowing that there's potential for "earned" chips to be worth less than what I'm actually risking, could be a pretty big factor in my willingness to keep funds in the BRM.  

For instance... maybe next year when we're fully operational and gaining traction, $2,500 gets you 5,000 CSC.  If you hold that 5k CSC in your BRM for a few weeks, and we see a huge dip, every "won" hand in a game of poker would be worth less than you're actually risking. Does that make sense?

Unless there was a general consensus that each CSC was worth $X.xx, we'll probably see a lot of users cashing out immediately to fiat.  If that comes with a substantially transaction fee, it may push users away from CSC game sites.

No FUD... just thinking out loud.

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2 minutes ago, RonSwanson said:

I've been thinking about how volatility might affect users willingness to hold CSC in the BRM in between sessions.  Personally, if I drop in $2,500 to play with, knowing that there's potential for "earned" chips to be worth less than what I'm actually risking, could be a pretty big factor in my willingness to keep funds in the BRM.  

For instance... maybe next year when we're fully operational and gaining traction, $2,500 gets you 5,000 CSC.  If you hold that 5k CSC in your BRM for a few weeks, and we see a huge dip, every "won" hand in a game of poker would be worth less than you're actually risking. Does that make sense?

Unless there was a general consensus that each CSC was worth $X.xx, we'll probably see a lot of users cashing out immediately to fiat.  If that comes with a substantially transaction fee, it may push users away from CSC game sites.

No FUD... just thinking out loud.

Hi Ron,

Interesting thought. But I'm not sure how the volatility potential is any different when CSC is held at Bank Roll Manager or at an exchange or wallet. Gamblers gamble, no?  Am I missing your point? (feeling very blonde today...) :classic_tongue:

Cyn

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3 minutes ago, CindyLou said:

Hi Ron,

Interesting thought. But I'm not sure how the volatility potential is any different when CSC is held at Bank Roll Manager or at an exchange or wallet. Gamblers gamble, no?  Am I missing your point? (feeling very blonde today...) :classic_tongue:

Cyn

Holding it in their BRM, as opposed to immediately cashing out to their bank account 👍

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23 minutes ago, RonSwanson said:

Unless there was a general consensus that each CSC was worth $X.xx, we'll probably see a lot of users cashing out immediately to fiat.

This is why I see CSC going to a stable value sooner rather than later. Players as well as exchanges should be holding a bulk of the coins by then. If there are a large percentage of coins being held by traders, the risk of volatility is higher. 

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the more operators that adopt it/hold it and the more players that use it this issue will become less and less of an issue as it stabilizes out and finds its market value. the coin and BRM is designed to be able to move quickly back n forth at sub penny per transaction. so if one is worried about the volatility in anyway they can opt to move out of the brm and back to their bank or else where between sessions. 

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11 minutes ago, Fidgetspinner said:

This is why I see CSC going to a stable value sooner rather than later. Players as well as exchanges should be holding a bulk of the coins by then. If there are a large percentage of coins being held by traders, the risk of volatility is higher. 

There's just so much of the coin (all of it?) outside of the CasinoCoin Team that are held by traders, seems like it will take some time before the bulk of it is in the hands of players instead of investors.

 

 

4 minutes ago, 50centCSC said:

so if one is worried about the volatility in anyway they can opt to move out of the brm and back to their bank or else where between sessions. 

That's what I was thinking... just not sure what the fees are going to look like on the BRM.  If it ends up costing $10 just to move your money back and forth between the bank and the BRM, people may start to frown upon that.  

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1 minute ago, RonSwanson said:

There's just so much of the coin (all of it?) outside of the CasinoCoin Team that are held by traders, seems like it will take some time before the bulk of it is in the hands of players instead of investors.

 

 

That's what I was thinking... just not sure what the fees are going to look like on the BRM.  If it ends up costing $10 just to move your money back and forth between the bank and the BRM, people may start to frown upon that.  

u must not deal with much internet gambling bc current methods have been terrible for years.. maybe I should make a video on that. some have begun adopting some blockchain tech like accepting bitcoin which has made it easier but tons of room for improvement. I'm actually gonna make a video on this bc I think many people don't realize the current problems when it comes to deposits and withdraws for the large majority of online gambling. at least all the headaches and costs i have encountered over the past 13+ years lol and how csc and their BRM is not only a better payment solution but actually building a network of operators to all work on. saving them cost and increasing their traffic.. and this will quickly stableize the price IMO once it is in use and operators have stock piles.

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3 minutes ago, 50centCSC said:

u must not deal with much internet gambling bc current methods have been terrible for years.. 

I've actually never been much of a gambler, online or otherwise, so a video on the topic would definitely be helpful!

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Guest BlackJack

My understanding is that when entering a casino the price is locked.

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29 minutes ago, DjemDiamond said:

My understanding is that when entering a casino the price is locked.

Extreme example only for maf reasons:

You have 1000 CSC for say current market price of $1 each in your BRM. You go play poker. price is locked once transfered from BRM to the casino at $1. 6 hours later you leave the casino. you made a plus of 1000 csc. You are being paid the locked $1. you *should* have $2000 worth of csc by now in your brm. But sadly market price during these 6 hours has moved downwards to $.50 per csc.

So either the casino checks markets price at checkout and gives you 4000 csc or your stack of 2000 csc is suddenly worth $1000 again in brm.

where is the break of logic here? trying to figure that out. who pays for the price fluctuations during locking period?

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Giving myself an answer after drinking a beer:

With price fluctuations there´s actually no inscentive for casinos (operators?) to hold csc. So on their side, it´s all about paying you out to market price. so if you won $1000 in  my example, they will have to convert 2000 csc at current market price of $.50 on checkout.  That´s for your win of $1000. 

Now here´s the point, meanwhile, the $1000 you started with were locked. but they are worth $500 now at .50 per csc. who pays for the $500 you have lost on your initial stack during that game?

Guys, if I am totally off here please let me know. just using what´s left of my brain this evening. cheers

 

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1 hour ago, DjemDiamond said:

My understanding is that when entering a casino the price is locked.

pretty sure nothing is locked. you are depositing csc. gambling with csc. and withdrawing csc. the casinos will have to have a stock of csc to negate any fluctuations.. there will be some volatility and this will be an issue for some and they won't use it. for others they will use it but opt to cash out back to fiat once they are done with their session. some players will keep it in csc if they like the product and feel it will go up in value. the thing is guys this coin only needs to capture 1/4th of 1% of the market to have a value of 4.5c and this is not factoring ANY people hodling it.. so even if all had dumped and this coin gets a measly .25% of the market.. that has a 4.5c value with another 99.75% of the market to work on getting involved. and I promise the current methods are terrible and costly as is. 

 

Edited by 50centCSC
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11 minutes ago, TheHoff said:

Giving myself an answer after drinking a beer:

With price fluctuations there´s actually no inscentive for casinos (operators?) to hold csc. So on their side, it´s all about paying you out to market price. so if you won $1000 in  my example, they will have to convert 2000 csc at current market price of $.50 on checkout.  That´s for your win of $1000. 

Now here´s the point, meanwhile, the $1000 you started with were locked. but they are worth $500 now at .50 per csc. who pays for the $500 you have lost on your initial stack during that game?

Guys, if I am totally off here please let me know. just using what´s left of my brain this evening. cheers

 

Hey Hoff, If you can't drink and argue with yourself, then who can you with? Just stay away from the midnight cheeseburger selfies! :biggrin:

 

Cyn - BAD!

 

 

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1 minute ago, CindyLou said:

Hey Hoff, If you can't drink and argue with yourself, then who can you with? Just stay away from the midnight cheeseburger selfies! :biggrin:

 

Cyn - BAD!

 

 

I remember this evening very well and my daughter was arrested in her room for 24h with no tv (only knight rider tapes) for posting this.

now i had one (!) beer to express my thoughts. one.

So if there´s no locking involved, then all is good. I think locking prices can be a "hassle". Now you know where my name comes from...

Why do I always read that prices get locked by the operators? 

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No Locking Hoff, no locking... Freedom, fluidity, real-time, reality, gamblers will gamble... I personally like the added component of price fluctuations; I may lose at the table but cash out at a profit! :clapping:

Cyn

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2 hours ago, DjemDiamond said:

My understanding is that when entering a casino the price is locked.

The legislation says the price is locked, but what it means it that the amount of CSC you have remains unchanged by market conditions.  It is an extension of the rule that operators cannot exchange cryptocurrencies inside their platforms.  So, if you entered with 1000 CSC, and won/lost 0 CSC, you leave with 1000 CSC, regardless if CSC went from $1 ->$10 or $10 -> $1

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7 minutes ago, honeybyte said:

The legislation says the price is locked, but what it means it that the amount of CSC you have remains unchanged by market conditions.  It is an extension of the rule that operators cannot exchange cryptocurrencies inside their platforms.  So, if you entered with 1000 CSC, and won/lost 0 CSC, you leave with 1000 CSC, regardless if CSC went from $1 ->$10 or $10 -> $1

Oh Honeybyte, you are the bees knees! Thanks for clearing that up for us drones... Now, if you have time, could you briefly explain this "legislation" of which you spoke, please? Any links to its text?

Thanks

CindyLou

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25 minutes ago, honeybyte said:

The legislation says the price is locked, but what it means it that the amount of CSC you have remains unchanged by market conditions.  It is an extension of the rule that operators cannot exchange cryptocurrencies inside their platforms.  So, if you entered with 1000 CSC, and won/lost 0 CSC, you leave with 1000 CSC, regardless if CSC went from $1 ->$10 or $10 -> $1

so your 1000 CSC stays stable within the BRM, but once you cash out, it becomes vulnerable to the price fluctuation and also becomes a taxable event? 

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2 hours ago, mycryptodream said:

so your 1000 CSC stays stable within the BRM, but once you cash out, it becomes vulnerable to the price fluctuation and also becomes a taxable event? 

Hi Dream,

Okay, so since no-one else has chimed in, I'll see if I understand this and give you a questionable answer! :classic_huh:

Basically CSC is CSC, no matter where it's stored, wallet, exchange, paper, BRM, or at a casino... All the same, while it's parked at any one place it's subject to price movement up or down.

I also believe that when you play at a table or whatever at an online casino, you will be betting with CSC as the currency "in play." (no?) Even if you use a fiat to gamble with, when you cash out you will be converted back to CSC at it's current price and that goes back to your BRM. Then you could move your CSC from the BRM to your CasinoCoin wallet and then to an exchange and sell it there for market value, that becomes a "taxable event." Pheeeww...

The BRM/CSC is just a convenient, pre-approved, "passport-wallet-currency" that the casino respects and accepts; it's easier, cheaper, faster and safer for the casino and the players.

Disclaimer: Everything I just posted could be completely wrong! :biggrin:

Cyn :friends:

 

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What @honeybyte said is correct. You will deposit CSC, gamble CSC and withdrawal CSC. Exchange rates won't matter. The thing that was reffed to is for responsible gaming as in how to determine a loss or wager limit has to be calculated, which can be quite difficult because of volatility.

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Thanks for the clarification Daniel!  So if I deposit $1000 worth of CSC it will go towards my responsible gaming limit at $1000 regardless of what happens while I gamble.

Hey @CindyLou, here is a post where I put all the Virtual currency bills.

at the top of that thread, you can also find the consultation on the Malta Gaming Authority (MGA) sandbox program for Distributed Ledger Technologies (DLT).

 

 

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I wanna give a big shoutout to everyone that took the time to give their input and provide a clear explanation!  My only hangup, not on the question, but on the theory; is that the vast majority of these gamers probably aren't going to be crypto enthusiasts... especially to the point of the recalculating their wagers every 15-20 minutes to ensure their monetary wagers are in line with their expected wagers. 

It almost seems like we're going to have to send them through an online tutorial of what they're actually getting themselves into, or risk leaving ourselves open to potential lawsuits.  I can see it now... "I was never told that my 1,000 CSC conversion from $1,000 could be worth less! How was I supposed to know that I had to check the market every minute!?"  You only have to look as far as Ripple to see that it's entirely possible to claim ignorance against a crypto-based corporation to have a shot at winning in court.

Like @50centCSC alluded to earlier, its entirely possible that I'm overthinking this.  I have no experience in online gambling, so the ease of CSC, even with market fluctuations, could far outweigh the complexity that online gamblers are currently dealing with.

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16 hours ago, mycryptodream said:

so your 1000 CSC stays stable within the BRM, but once you cash out, it becomes vulnerable to the price fluctuation and also becomes a taxable event? 

Your question is actually 2-fold.  

As @CindyLou mentioned, the CSC stays open to market volatility regardless of where it's stored, be it the BRM, desktop wallet, etc. 

As far as taxes implications, that is an entirely different topic.  I don't know where you're located, but in the United States, the IRS treats crypto as property.  As it stands, to stay in line with IRS regulations, every crypto transaction you make is a taxable event.  You would have to report any gain/loss from market fluctuations that you receive each time you cash out from CSC to USD.  In addition, you'd have to report the winnings/losses as well.

It would be ideal for the gaming websites to work with the BRM to track things such as the date, time stamp, game played, and win/loss per hand/dice roll/slot pull.  That'd make doing your taxes a cinch.  I'm not sure that's currently in the works though.

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12 minutes ago, RonSwanson said:

I wanna give a big shoutout to everyone that took the time to give their input and provide a clear explanation!  My only hangup, not on the question, but on the theory; is that the vast majority of these gamers probably aren't going to be crypto enthusiasts... especially to the point of the recalculating their wagers every 15-20 minutes to ensure their monetary wagers are in line with their expected wagers. 

It almost seems like we're going to have to send them through an online tutorial of what they're actually getting themselves into, or risk leaving ourselves open to potential lawsuits.  I can see it now... "I was never told that my 1,000 CSC conversion from $1,000 could be worth less! How was I supposed to know that I had to check the market every minute!?"  You only have to look as far as Ripple to see that it's entirely possible to claim ignorance against a crypto-based corporation to have a shot at winning in court.

Like @50centCSC alluded to earlier, its entirely possible that I'm overthinking this.  I have no experience in online gambling, so the ease of CSC, even with market fluctuations, could far outweigh the complexity that online gamblers are currently dealing with.

Hi Ron,

You may be guilty of "overthinking", I have never been accused of such a thing! :classic_biggrin: So let me under-think this... While it's true that crypto is more volatile than normal currency (fiat), it's all the same. You may log onto a gambling site and buy-in with dollars and convert to play at a table using Euros; when you cash out and convert back to your dollars there may have been a currency fluctuation during that time.

If you travel to Europe and buy Euros with dollars, two weeks later it is likely that your Euros have changed in value against the dollar when you convert back to dollars, "Obladi Oblada life goes on Brah!" :ok:

I personally would not be concerned and just consider it part of the gambling experience, but then again I'm a bit kooky (so I've been told...) 

Cyn-cerely :give_heart2:

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2 minutes ago, CindyLou said:

Hi Ron,

You may be guilty of "overthinking", I have never been accused of such a thing! :classic_biggrin: So let me under-think this... While it's true that crypto is more volatile than normal currency (fiat), it's all the same. You may log onto a gambling site and buy-in with dollars and convert to play at a table using Euros; when you cash out and convert back to your dollars there may have been a currency fluctuation during that time.

If you travel to Europe and buy Euros with dollars, two weeks later it is likely that your Euros have changed in value against the dollar when you convert back to dollars, "Obladi Oblada life goes on Brah!" :ok:

I personally would not be concerned and just consider it part of the gambling experience, but then again I'm a bit kooky (so I've been told...) 

Cyn-cerely :give_heart2:

Yeah, I definitely get that.  But the crypto market can crash 10-20% in the matter of hours, and do so pretty regularly.  Fiat swaps don't do that.

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